1-21-08 @6:09 PM ~ Gracias Companeros ~ I took the liberty of editing and stringing this thread together as there are some fascinating insights by all of you in relation to the on-going Presidential primary and Latinos in general. We are blessed with good minds and good hearts here. Sometimes threads get tangled and I use to macrame a lot.
I have the TV on CNN right now and the Democratic Presidential Debate tonight is kind of interesting and provides some political entertainment but the game will remain the same and we are not even a player in the game this time around.
Social power involves organization, personality and various forms of capital (including volunteer service). As a people we have little real social power with great potential, but potential is not manifest. It must be generated by us.
I related to what Carlos Pelayo wrote:
"We are now occupying the elders position and instead of advising our peoples liberation we preach accommodation. We need to come together on a common agenda for our people, the indigenous peoples
of this land....."
Indeed, we require a common agenda and my personal agenda is a basic humane rights agenda based upon the continued fight for humane rights for all people no matter their bloodline. We are all human beings, though not all of us are genuinely humane with care, concern and compassion for all enslaved peoples.
We cannot leave the entire field of electoral politics, all established political parties and let our historical enemies dominate the field, but rather we should see our mass participation in official elections as one of several other main methods of struggle for the future, including creating community survival programs, promoting general literacy along with local newspapers, expanding our media powers on the Internet and heightening our combat readiness for armed resistance when confronted by any and all unjust attacks. Our only limitation is imagination and our combat readiness. There is more than one way to skin a pig.
We need to come back to ourselves, continue to work on the local level with a global overview and never give up in our strivings for humane liberation.
Any Chicano cultural nationalist approach will further isolate us as a distinct people from elements among our own people, such as, Puerto RIcans, Cubanos, Mexicanos etc. Positive creative and constructive action makes the vanguard and Latino leaders should be in the forefront of global struggles for liberation by any means mandatory.
We need to relate to and serve our basic survival interests in unity with all peoples of all lands. It will all always come down to the people's basic needs: food, clothing, shelter, medical care and quality education. People are starving now in Aztlan!
We must engage in the mass mobilization of the people around their basic needs in communion with the people, as we explain our general strategy with a comprehensive set of tactics. Our general approach must be multi-racial, multi-cultural and multi-sensory. We cannot do it all by ideologies or philosophies alone, but the people must know what its leaders envision!
I will tend to believe a man who feeds me in silence without expecting a return rather than a fat leader who feeds me speeches and wants my support. True giving expects nor wants any returns. Pedagogically, we feed consciousness by feeding people with our just witnessing new growth our best real reward. I am blessed to see it every day at work at our homeless shelter here in Sacra in communion with my people of all colors and races and beliefs. We give people shelter and help guide them into decent housing and encourage spiritual growth.
"In dialogical theory, at no stage can revolutionary action forgo communion with the people. Communion in turn elicits cooperation, which brings leaders and people in the fusion described by Guevara. This fusion can exist only if revolutionary action is really human, empathetic, loving, communicative, and humble, in order to be liberating."
~Paulo Freire, Pedagogy of the Oppressed ~ Page 171.
I am going to kick back and take mental notes on this debate, Forgive me all for not posting more in these times but immediate connected reality beckons and demands my attentions.
Suggestion: Why not a few of us write complete articles which can be spins on current events for Guillermo to post at the website? So much gets lost if it is not recorded, along with links to web sources.
1 a: the act of spinning or twirling something; also : an instance of spinning or of spinning something <doing axels and spins> <an assortment of spins and lobs> b: the whirling motion imparted (as to a ball or top) by spinning c: an excursion or ride in a vehicle especially on wheels <go for a spin>
2 a: an aerial maneuver or flight condition consisting of a combination of roll and yaw with the longitudinal axis of the airplane inclined steeply downward b: a plunging descent or downward spiral c: a state of mental confusion <all in a spin>
3 a: a quantum characteristic of an elementary particle that is visualized as the rotation of the particle on its axis and that is responsible for measurable angular momentum and magnetic moment b: the angular momentum associated with such rotation whose magnitude is quantized and which may assume either of two possible directions; also : the angular momentum of a system of such particles derived from the spins and orbital motions of the particles
4 a: a usually ingenious twist <puts an Asian spin on the pasta dishes> b (1): a special point of view, emphasis, or interpretation presented for the purpose of influencing opinion <put the most favorable spin on the findings> (2): spin control
2 a: an aerial maneuver or flight condition consisting of a combination of roll and yaw with the longitudinal axis of the airplane inclined steeply downward b: a plunging descent or downward spiral c: a state of mental confusion <all in a spin>
3 a: a quantum characteristic of an elementary particle that is visualized as the rotation of the particle on its axis and that is responsible for measurable angular momentum and magnetic moment b: the angular momentum associated with such rotation whose magnitude is quantized and which may assume either of two possible directions; also : the angular momentum of a system of such particles derived from the spins and orbital motions of the particles
4 a: a usually ingenious twist <puts an Asian spin on the pasta dishes> b (1): a special point of view, emphasis, or interpretation presented for the purpose of influencing opinion <put the most favorable spin on the findings> (2): spin control
Venceremos Unidos!trong>
Peta-de-Aztlan
Peta-de-Aztlan
Sacramento, Califas, Aztlan
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chicanostudent@hotmail.com wrote:
we plainly agree- although you say we cannot stay on the sidelines, what is t
he alternative? I submit to you that the Green party is that alternative, any other choice supports the status quo
Eugene Hernandez
he alternative? I submit to you that the Green party is that alternative, any other choice supports the status quo
Eugene Hernandez
Carlos Pelayo <cgpelayo@hotmail.com> wrote:
I am not implying to sit out the elections. On the contrary, we haven't even attempted to exhaust that strategy. The Partido being on the ballot or not is not the issue. What we are experiencing is "conscious" activists sitting it out from the movimiento. Where do we expect to see the change come from? From the white "progressive" left? It does not and never will trickle down to us. Many of us have a lot to contribute to building a viable movimiento. We have history and experience both good and bad. It has not been a waste of time. Our experiences are fresh and if analyzed can be the foundation for the political ideology that our peoples need. It is time to throw in, not just sitting it out.
Carlos Pelayo
Partido Nacional La Raza Unidarong>reposted as "Spam con Huevos" strong>Material appearing here is distributed without profit or monitory gain to those who have expressed an interest in receiving the material for research and educational purposes. This is in accordance with Title 17 U. S. C. section 107.
http://www4.law.cornell. r>edu/uscode/ r>17/107.html Visit: http://NetworkAztlan.com to subscribe to NetworkAztlan_r>Native-Views@ yahoogroups. r>com Peace and Dignity Project/Proyecto Paz y Dignidadrong>,Support the Kumeyaay Children's Shelter of Tecate www.peaceanddignity>project.org Partido Nacional La Raza Unidarong>info at: partido_nacional@r>yahoo.com Peace and Dignity Journeys 2008"It is also in the interests of a tyrant to keep his people poor, so that
they may not be able to afford the cost of protecting themselves by arms and be so occupied with their daily tasks that they have no time for rebellion." - Aristotle
Lucha Sigue! The Struggle Continues! Vote and Register La Raza Unida Party! Que Viva La Raza!iv>"In order for the oppressed to be able to wage the struggle for their liberation, they must perceive the reality of their oppression, not as a closed world from which there is not exit, but as a limiting situation which they can transform. This perception is a necessary but not a sufficient condition for liberation; it must become the motivating force for liberating action." ~Don Paulo Freire, strong>Pedagogy of the Opressedrong>.
http://www.networkaztlan.com/ http://www.powwows.com/radio/
U.S. Military Killed in Action In Iraq:1/20/08: No Reports Wounded: 62 Wounded Total (to 12/26/07): 49,721 Killed in Action, December 2007: 39 http://www.freedomfiles.org/ war/fema. r>htm, rong>
To: networkaztlan_r>news@yahoogroups .com
From: chicanostudent@r>hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:26:25 +0000
Subject: RE: [NetworkAztlan_r>News] Re: Latino Voters: Beyond Obama and Clinton by Carlos Munoz Fine words Carlos- But then what? Vote for the Partido when it is not even on the ballot? i agree with you entirely- each presidential candidate has its share of vendidos hawking their candidate, the Demos more than the Republican, but advising Raza to sit out the elections and not do a thing is not the answer!
Eugene Hernandez
To: networkaztlan_r>news@yahoogroups .com
From: cgpelayo@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:45:38 -0800
Subject: RE: [NetworkAztlan_r>News] Re: Latino Voters: Beyond Obama and Clinton by Carlos Munoz The fundamental problem is that Latinos, Hispanics, mexican americans, raza or whatever we call ourselves do not vote in any significant manner, and those that do not even as a block. We are not taken seriously by any power manager in the corporate, private, public, and labor sector. We are seen only as consumers and "managed" politically and economically. Our selfish and self-centered preoccupation with chasing after white privilege has the primary issues of family, traditions and culture relegated to the bottom of our list of priorities. Our schools are failing our children, the prisons are bursting at the seams with our people, and we find many of our youth mimicking the values and mores of the criminal/gangster culture, and sadly we enable it. So then don't you all think we have a serious fundamental problem here? Our future, our youth, are misguided and confused. Their teachers, us, have no answers or guidance to offer, our elders are where? Our behavior in general oozes such positive cultural and traditional values. What a future! Instead of waiting for the white master to lay out the plan to our liberation, don't you think its time to rethink our own independent political plan, party, ideology. Some call yourselves Chicanos, yet act in total contradiction. What is wrong with focusing on our own people and issues. That is what Chicanismo is all about, the struggle to transform our peoples political and economic condition here in the southwest, Aztlan. None of these candidates from any of the parties gives a rat's ass about us, and its sad to say many of our folks don't either. Those of us from that generation of activists have left no political legacy for this present generation. We are now occupying the elders position and instead of advising our peoples liberation we preach accommodation. We need to come together on a common agenda for our people, the indigenous peoples of this land. The time is right to come back to Chicanismo and leave those Democratic, Republican, Peace and Freedom, Libertarian, Green and all the other alphabet soup mistresses/viejas. Be part of building the warrior nation of Aztlan and move our people in a just and dignified direction.
Carlos Pelayo
Partido Nacional La Raza Unidareposted as "Spam con Huevos" Material appearing here is distributed without profit or monitory gain to those who have expressed an interest in receiving the material for research and educational purposes. This is in accordance with Title 17 U. S. C. section 107.
http://www4.law.cornell. edu/uscode/ 17/107.html Visit: http://NetworkAztlan.com to subscribe to NetworkAztlan_Native-Views@ yahoogroups. com Peace and Dignity Project/Proyecto Paz y Dignidad,Support the Kumeyaay Children's Shelter of Tecate www.peaceanddignityproject.org Partido Nacional La Raza Unidainfo at: partido_nacional@yahoo.com Peace and Dignity Journeys 2008"It is also in the interests of a tyrant to keep his people poor, so that"In order for the oppressed to be able to wage the struggle for their liberation, they must perceive the reality of their oppression, not as a closed world from which there is not exit, but as a limiting situation which they can transform. This perception is a necessary but not a sufficient condition for liberation; it must become the motivating force for liberating action." ~Don Paulo Freire, Pedagogy of the Opressed.
they may not be able to afford the cost of protecting themselves by arms and be so occupied with their daily tasks that they have no time for rebellion." - Aristotle
Lucha Sigue! The Struggle Continues! Vote and Register La Raza Unida Party! Que Viva La Raza!
http://www.networkaztlan.com/ http://www.powwows.com/radio/
U.S. Military Killed in Action In Iraq: 1/19/08: 1 Current Total: 3,997 +475 in Afghanistan Wounded : 62 Wounded Total: 49,721 Killed in Action, December 2007: 39 Wounded
http://www.freedomfiles.org/ war/fema. htm,
To: NetworkAztlan_News@yahoogroups .com
From: artxchange@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:15:13 -0800
Subject: RE: [NetworkAztlan_News] Re: Latino Voters: Beyond Obama and Clinton by Carlos Munoz My Question?
I am a supporter of Rep. Dennis Kucinich and will vote as an independent. What do you say when I have anxious about Kucinich' chances of winning the Presidency of the United States. I see the reality that's shaping the campaigns, if no green, no Edwards, Richardson or the Clintons, or Obama what's a Latino to do? (Beside this, I'm a real Chicano) Is my best chance to end the Republican Empire?
In addition to the above, how does my vote really matter as an effective person in the working class or artistic movements, especially in-group Internet media? I say, as a member / subscriber making the best vote for choosing a Democratic President is vital.What of Network Aztlan members to discuss, do/done and
cooperate? Personally it make me proud by leadership,
unity and in the field of activism in battling the Bush' Republican Empire.
guillermo B.
--- chicanostudent@hotmail.com wrote:
I agree totally with the analysis by Carlos Munoz, one critical issue which Edwards, Clinton and Obama ignore is Impeachment, which only the Green Party and Dennis K. are advocating. Obama and Clinton, with their advisors from AIPAC (American Isreali Poltiical Action Committee) are the ones calling the shots on their foreign policy decisions and
pronouncements. It is time that Chicanos turn away from chosing the lesser of two evils- Both Obama and Hillary support the evil bill of "Domestic terrorism" which has the potential of sending all of us to jail for our political beliefs and actions.
Edwards does sound more of a cord with working class issues, Obama (whose political mentor in the Senate was Joe Liberman, immediately voted for the regressive law making it harder to declare bankrupty, perhaps seeing the economic debacle which
the mortage business is now in, causing a recession/depression. As for Hillary- she is just Dick Chaney in a pant suit, salivating to go to war against Iran.Eugene Hernandez http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NetworkAztlan_News/message/30587
To: wvcharnley@verizon.netFrom :
rosalio_munoz@sbcglobal. : Fri, 18 Jan 2008netDate
14:17:37 -0800Subject: [NetworkAztlan_News] Re:
Latino Voters: Beyond Obama and Clinton by Carlos Munoz
>
Tocayo Carlos, In response to the Op/ed piece you sent out below.I believe I understand and in many ways agree with your emphasis on Latinos seeing themselves as part ofa progressive movement in our national politics. However, I think there is a leftist bias in yourslightly veiled call for Latinos to reject Obama andClinton that is at cross purposes with the goal ofhelping Latinos move national politics in a progressive direction.
First of all you leave the global corporate ultraright Republican elite off the hook. They are not only the greatest obstacle to progress in this country but still constitute a serious threat of greater reaction.
Latinos as much and more than the general populace realize this and should be encouraged to increase their anti reactionary concerns and activity and that the bigger rejection of the right will openthe door to greater progressive possibilities. This bias leads to an almost an Alice in Wonderland view of the leading Democrats. Considering thedifferences between the top tier Democrats andRepublicans I think the song Just One Look (Was all it took) speaks volumes in this regard. The gender,race, and economic backgrounds of the candidates areissues, historic ones! It is de facto affirmativeaction !Now on the issues of the war and immigration. Youfail to mention that both Obama and Clinton (as well as Kucinich and Edwards) are for legalization of the undocumented with a path to citizenship) .
On the War these two do call for ending the war with Obama forscaling back more rapidly, not the 5, ten and 100years that McCain and the neocons campaign for.
This issue of advisors, I think these Democrats alsohave pro labor, pro peace, pro immigrant, pro habeas corpus advisors as well, que no?.advisors as well. On the economy, they are for taxing the rich.
They favor the Employee Free Choice Act to reempower the labor movement which would empower Latinos economically, socially and politically. On the empire, would that we had an anti-monopoly/antiimperialist organized majority in this country. We don't. Freedom is knowledge of necessity and possibility. The leading Democrats arefor setting some limits on the empire, I think mostworld leaders and people would deeply appreciate this. So I think we must reject a now or never approach, but remembering Lalo Guerrero call for tortillas, corn andde harina, and plenty of them.
A big issue is the growing importance of Latinos to the US politics,economy and culture, aqui estamos y no nos vamos and we demand respect. I think we the Latinos and all peoples turnout in the primaries in the
buildup to November 4 for an anti right wing landslide. I do think we should put pressure on all the Democrats (and Republicans) to denounce the racist anti immigrant attacks of the Repbulicans, it will win over moreLatino voters and resonate well with a big majority of the U.S. people. ---
"Carlos Munoz, Jr." cmjr@berkeley. edu> wrote:Dear All:
This op ed went out today via Knight-Ridder news
service. Peace, Carlos
Latino Voters: Beyond Obama and ClintonBy Carlos Munoz Jr. (tilde over the n)As Latinos move center stage in the Democratic primary campaign, they should get past the race and gender of the candidates and focus on the issues. If they do so, they will notice Sen. Barack Obama's record closely parallels that ofSen. Hillary Clinton.Obama and Clinton are basically in agreement on the
issue of "illegal immigration" as it is framed in the Congress and the media. They have both voted consistently in favor of Senate bills that aim to increase the militarization of the U.S.- Mexico border. They both have supported the raids in the
workplaces and in the homes of undocumented workers and their families. These raids have resulted in the tragic break-up of families and have turned innocent children, most of them born in the United States, into homeless orphans when their parents have been arrested and deported.On the war in Iraq, Obama's record now also closely resembles Clinton's. Though he originally opposed the war, neither he nor Clinton supports an immediate withdrawal of troops. And both have supported increased funding for the war. For Latinos, this is a big issue, since a majority has long opposed the war in Iraq. And, incidentally, the first U.S. soldier to die in Iraq was a Latino immigrant from Guatemala by the name of Jose Antonio Gutierrez.
On Pentagon spending, Obama, like Clinton, favors a substantial boost in the military budget and an increase in the size of our armed forces by the thousands. There is also little difference
between them on the economy. Both of them focus on the middle class, while the majority of Latinos are working class - many of them in the cheap labor sector.
Former Sen. John Edwards is the only leading Democratic Party candidate who has put poverty on the agenda and the only one who has spoken to the need to improve the economy for the working class. Edwards correctly places the blame on the corporate sector for the growth of poverty and the bad
economic conditions faced by workers.Obama and Clinton, on the other hand, prefer not to challenge corporate power head on. The only other Democratic candidate to raise this issue has been Rep. Dennis Kucinich, but the networks have excluded him from the most recent debates.
Kucinich, by the way, also challenges the United States to stop being an empire. No one else goes near that one. In fact, Obama and Clinton both have advisers who have served previous presidents and are committed to the agenda of maintaining
the U.S. empire.
Latino voters who are critical of this consensus may not want to choose between the lesser of two evils. They could go to an independent third party candidate that best reflects a true commitment to real progressive change. The Green Party, for example, has attracted more of those critical Latino voters
in recent elections. But whichever candidate they choose, it is crucial that discerning Latino voters and all well-meaning citizens commit themselves to a movement for peace, democracy, and social and economic justice -at home and abroad. That movement is more important than any candidate.Carlos Munoz Jr. (tilde over the n) is a longtime activist and Professor Emeritus in the Department of Ethnic Studies, University of California, Berkeley. He served as an advisor to the 1988 Jesse Jackson presidential campaign and is a former member of the Rainbow Coalition.
Copyright Carlos Munoz Jr.
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